Dylan McCabe: WeInfuse Podcast, episode number 7. Welcome to the WeInfuse podcast, where we take the confusion out of infusion. And in each episode, our desire is to give you really a behind the scenes look at the infusion industry clinical side and the business side, and to give you tips, tools, and a roadmap to successfully launch and streamline your current practice. In this particular episode, we have Kevin Lyons on the show and he’s the executive director of the RNS. The rheumatology nurses society really just brings a whole lot to the table, especially when it comes to equipping nurses, specifically in the rheumatology context and also dealing with workforce-related issues. And that’s what we’re going to get into in this episode. So I will let you listen in. Let’s get started. All right, today we have on the show, Kevin Lyons, executive director of RNs. That is the rheumatology nurses society and Amanda Mixon, a PA with the rheumatology practice in Fort Collins, Colorado. And Amanda is a workforce committee chair for RNs. So guys thank you for being on the show today.
Kevin Lyons: Thanks, Dylan
Amanda Mixon: Thanks for having us.
Dylan McCabe: And we are at the RNs conference here in Fort Worth, Texas. I talked to some people, I sat at a table earlier with some ladies from, I think they were from Massachusetts or something and asked them what they were doing in their spare time. And one of them went to see the deal where they take the cattle through the streets.
Kevin Lyons: Actually, we took our board of directors on Monday night up boot shopping to prepare for our presidents’ dinner tonight we got the tail end of the cattle drive.
Dylan McCabe: Nice! Yeah.
Kevin Lyons: Fort Worth has been a great town for us.
Amanda Mixon: Really has, yeah.
Kevin Lyons: So this is actually our 11th annual conference and we appreciate WeInfuse coming out. You guys are exhibiting, how’s the exhibit hall working for you?
Dylan McCabe: It’s been great. Yea we had, yes we did we, especially the opening morning there were so many people it was really needed to connect with so many nurses. I mean, cause just like you guys, I’m sure. I mean we attend a lot of conferences but it’s neat to be so focused on nurses.
Kevin Lyons: And one of the unique things that has occurred over the past years on this white man is with us today is as a PA she’s the workforce committee chair on the RNs board of directors. And so the RNs it was originally established as the rheumatology nurses society for registered nurses. And now we’ve added for registered nurses as well as nurse practitioners and physician assistants and PAs that allows us to take all of the education that we’re producing and really share with the broader audience and ultimately impact patients better.
Dylan McCabe: So for people listening to this podcast that maybe don’t know about rheumatology nurses society, can you give us just a little bit of background about what RNS is and what your mission is?
Kevin Lyons: The RNS we’re a nonprofit association, we’re a specialty nursing association. So we were recognized by the American nurses association back in 2012 as rheumatology nursing specialties. Before that there wasn’t a specialty, I mean, rheumatology is kind of new per se in the medical field. So as a nonprofit, we are a membership-based society. We also are an ANCC, which is American nursing credentialing center, accredited provider of education. So we accredit all of our activities. And then we also produce the core curriculum for rheumatology nursing as well as we have the scope and standards of practice for rheumatology nursing which just today, the American nursing association has approved our second edition of the scope and standards of practice. which, Dr. Sherry Carter, who is a former president of the RNs was the chair of that committee. And so we’ve really kind of taken the specialty role of rheumatology and nursing advancing it forward to provide the education. When we used to have conversations in the early days of, I mean, early days where we are only 10 years old and celebrating our 11th year, we would have these educational conversations of what are the educational gaps in rheumatology for nurses and advanced practice providers. And the gap was everything. There was nothing, there was, not any substantial body of education for them. So that’s where over the years we’ve developed the core curriculum we’ve held 10 annual, this is our 11th annual conference. We have over 20 contact hours, but what’s unique over the past year or two is we’ve also added in AAPA credit so that our PA friends can also come and join and take advantage of the education that is here. We also do some other things. We do a two-day forum series, which we did one in San Diego back in February. We have one coming up in DC and November, and then we were doing three more next year. And that those are two day intensive, conferences where we look at immunology applied immunology to autoimmune disease. We go through a lot of the mechanisms of action. We go through a lot of understanding cytokines, and then we flip it to disease, state education, and do a lot of focus also on gamification during our conferences, which I think is kind of innovative. We use games like cahoots and so forth where the whole audience competes with each other [inaudible)]. So it’s super fun. We are a big believer in all of our live events. If you have fun, you get the outcomes and we always keep it light. We keep it polished and everyone has a great time. So RNs’ live events we also produce the rheumatology nurse practice publication, which is free for anyone. You can go to RNs, nurse.org, and sign up for that. Amanda has participated in a lot of those activities and we also do a ton of dinner programs. We just finished up a series in 10 cities on RA. We have a new series coming out on lupus where we’re going to be in 8 cities, here in the fall. So again go to the website or RNs nurse.org, take a look, we’ll have the schedule up there probably next week. And, basically come out we buy you a free steak and you get two hours of credit activity and everyone has a good time. And we also leave chapters behind. We have a lot of chapters out there. So one of the big things that I’m super happy you invited Amanda is we’re really looking at the workforce. The 2015 workforce report came out and basically, we were joking in the board meeting this week. We call it a room again. So it’s the quote-unquote impending doom of rheumatology. But seriously though, there’s a shortage of rheumatologists, a shortage of fellowships coming in, and many of your listeners, I would assume be familiar with that report. And the RNs is uniquely positioned to recruit, retain, and develop RNs nurse practitioners, as well as physician assistants to come in and fill the gaps to reduce patient time, to, get the patients the care they need when they need it, without them going through the severe disease activity. so we have a whole bunch of workforce strategy that we’re going to be releasing maybe we can have another podcast another day we start revealing that, to recruit RNs NPs and PAs, but also we want to have some conversations and we have some webinars and some, our own broadcasts that are coming up in the future. That’s going to be a town hall, like where we’re talking to a lot of rheumatologists as well, who have NPS and PAs in their practice. And we’re going to have these conversations of how did you find in NP, PA or, what was your experience with them? What were your concerns and fears with them, and how did you fully implement them into your practice into a success story? So that’s a lot, and I know this isn’t a solo podcast here.
Dylan McCabe: That’s great though because it’s so good to talk about these things. There are a lot of people that may not know there’s a shortage. And I know I have a niece that just finished nursing school, and I don’t know if she knows there’s a shortage of rheumatology nurses. And I think a lot of people think, well, there’s all these people in nursing school that the market might be flooded because it’s kind of like at one time, everybody wanted to either be a lawyer, a doctor, and then you hear become a nurse, there’s guaranteed work or whatever, but there’s still so much opportunity. And we know being in this space, there’s a growing need for medical care and there are new offices and providers just spreading up all over. I know on the infusion side, there are new infusion suites opening it seems like on a weekly basis.
Kevin Lyons: And the business models are changing rapidly. I mean, from the challenges with access to care, the challenges with, the prior auths, and all the treatment guidelines. I mean, it’s rapidly changing, evolving, especially for rheumatology though with nursing. There’s a shortage of nurses, but at the same time, we hear a lot of times that there’s difficulty in nurses and students finding jobs. And that’s some of our messaging that, Amanda’s championing of, how do we get out there and build awareness of the specialty of rheumatology, to RMS and the NPS and PAs, especially when they’re coming out of college, out of the NP and PA schools. And then also let them know that they are in high demand. I mean, we see each other at a lot of other conferences. I think we were at CCR we were at FSR and all the other acronyms of rheumatology scope. And we get rheumatologists coming up to us at every conference and they’re asking us, how can I hire an MP? How can I hire a PA, where can I find them? Where can I find an RN? Our infusion suites, lagging behind because our RNs are overtaxed, we can’t turn our chairs over, the way we want to. And unfortunately, the answer is you can’t find a rheumatology RN or a PA or an NP easily. You have to generally recruit one from another specialty or a student or someone who’s in primary care and then train them and then implement them. And, it’s kind of a tar pit I think, rheumatology is in right now is finding training and implementing, to the point where you actually get the ROI from a business model, you get the benefit. And ultimately the patient load gets taken care of, and they’re getting the care they need. So there is a shortage, but there’s also difficulty finding jobs by then. It’s almost like red meat in lions for rheumatology I think because even though there’s a shortage, we have the ability of quickly educating NPs RNs and MPAs and put them into the workforce. So if you know someone who’s an RN NP PA that wants to come into rheumatology, there are a lot of practices we would love to hire you.
Dylan McCabe: That’s so helpful. And Amanda, on your side, being a PA at a practice in Colorado, you’re also heavily involved with RNS and championing workforce issues. What’s one thing, from your area of expertise, as it pertains to workforce issues, what’s something you would want our listeners to learn from your experience so far in that?
Amanda Mixon: Yeah I mean, I think, we all want to practice to the top of what our licenses are, I think that’s what I think about it and I’ve certainly heard of friends or, in school that are, they’re not able to do that. Nurses, nurse practitioners, PAs and the thing I love about rheumatology is that it’s a complex specialty, but in the right practice, you really can be autonomous. You can see these patients, you can diagnose them, you can watch them get better. We have these emerging therapies and it makes my day to see somebody go from not being able to walk to walking again. And so this is a specialty that I really want people to consider. I think a lot of people don’t know about it. A lot of people don’t know about rheumatology. I mean, I think most of the listeners do this, but there are a lot of students that don’t quite understand that it’s a field that’s not just, elderly people with arthritis. I mean, it’s fun, it’s exciting, it’s complex and I think there’s a lot of job satisfaction that goes along with it.
Dylan McCabe: Oh, absolutely. I mean, I see a lot of before and after pictures, even at these trade shows or conferences that we go to, and it’s amazing to see some of these before and after pictures of patients that have these chronic diseases and they get these cutting edge procedures or treatments. And next thing, they’re, maybe not a hundred percent symptom-free, but a complete life change. And that’s pretty amazing you really are changing people’s lives.
Amanda Mixon: Truly, truly.
Dylan McCabe: Well. Let’s talk specifically about your experience in your practice on the clinical side, obviously in every practice, there are struggles there are breakthroughs. Tell us about one of the big struggles that you guys have experienced in your practice. If there’s a particular story you can share that could be an encouragement to others.
Amanda Mixon: Yeah. I mean, I think, that two-fold because I think there’s certainly a struggle of a patient that you see that’s really, really sick and they don’t have access to getting the medication that they need. I mean, that is something that, perhaps they don’t have insurance for, we know that they need this particular drug and, it’s a challenge to get it. And that is such a huge issue. but then, we have, drug, we have the pharmaceutical companies that will help us that we’ll get these medications for these patients and you can actually see them go from, feeling just completely like lost to, again, that flip where they’re doing so much better and they’re in remission and they’re then able to get a job because their diseases under much better control. And so, obviously we have to always play the insurance company game. but when we do get these medications, these, speaking of infusion, I mean, when we get these patients on these medications and we see them do much better, I mean it’s a game changer.
Dylan McCabe: Yeah that’s great. And that’s one thing we hear a lot too. I mean, I, I probably talked to different, one, two, three different practices a day, sometimes from all over the US and they all share stories of challenges. And most of the time I’d say those challenges are lopsided in the direction of access issues, insurance companies the whole benefits investigation process. And just trying to make sure that patient has access to that drug in a consistent manner.
Kevin Lyons: and really on that, I think yea this is another powerful part of RNS as our advocacy efforts that we push out there. We’re part of a couple of different coalitions. They’re focusing on transparency and pricing, that focused on the pharmacy benefit managers and their role in providing transparency and eliminating that. And that’s another part of RNS and I think back to your listeners is don’t underestimate the power that you have of being able to affect change and policy. I used to think that DC was this complicated thing that you would have to be trained and do all the stuff that was to go to the Hill And to talk to a member Congressman but working with organizations like arthritis foundation lupus foundation of America, we’ve actually have sent many of our board members, out there and advocating It’s so easy to join. Even if this is the point of signing onto a letter or calling your state representative, you can make those changes. There’s a great organization. That’s friends of ours, a CSRO, which is a Coalition of state rheumatology organizations. And they have a great website that also has a lot of information about how you can get involved and effect those changes and some of the upcoming bills. I mean, there are the accumulators and a lot of the part B part D things they’re coming outside. Just throw that out there to keep your eyes up, and then you can also make a difference on that.
Dylan McCabe: That’s so great because we did another podcast episode a while back with Brian Nyquist from the NICA and just, yeah. And on the infusion side, I mean, that’s what the NICA does is provide a voice and a platform for pushing for patient access and all these things.
Kevin Lyons: In the infusion group he’s with, or he’s executive director with, they were very instrumental in the part D or part B I’m sorry, efforts that see us or rebel or this working on. They actually, I think, got to the point where they were called by the top person of Congress and said, please stop calling our offices because they were blocking our phone lines. I mean, they just rolled out this massive, massive, advocacy challenge. So, that goes all the way back to you Amanda is with, access. I mean, ultimately, I mean, you see the patient effect of that firsthand. Not only imagine it has not been a clinician, what that impact is when you tell a patient, well, if there is help for you but you can’t have it.
Amanda Mixon: Right. I mean, or, you prescribe, let’s say you prescribe Remicade for a patient. And then it’s, two, three months later before the patient actually gets started on it because of these issues and so that that’s definitely a challenge.
Dylan McCabe: Well, it’s great to know. People can link up with you guys, especially for rheumatology, and be part of a more influential voice and actually push forth. A lot of people think, well, what can I do? I’m just this one person at this one practice. And like you said, there’s a lot you can do. And I’m a huge fan of taking initiative and taking action instead of sitting back and just waiting for something to happen that doesn’t work out too well. So that’s great that you guys are doing that well, going into another story, especially with the practice that you’re involved with Amanda, tell us what just, I know you’re a PA you’ve seen lots of patients you’ve seen lots of things. What’s one light bulb moment or big success story is just something really neat that you’ve experienced in your practice with a patient.
Amanda Mixon: Yeah I mean, so I can think of, I’m actually, I have, one of the first times I ever used a biologic in a patient and this was a patient with ankylosing spondylitis and he was a younger guy and I started him. So he comes into the office, he’s not doing well. And so we decided that biologics, is the appropriate therapy for him, and I’m very new to rheumatology. This is, 11 years ago, and, about six weeks later, he came back and he wanted to see me. He didn’t have an appointment. And initially, I was thinking, Oh my gosh, what happened? And what he did is he went to an exam room and I came in and he bent over and he tied his shoes. And that was so significant to him because prior to being on this medication, he was not able to do that his son had to do it for him. And that was one of those light bulb moments for me of course, Oh my gosh, I’m in this field that truly can change people’s lives. And I have so many stories like that, but it just made me so encouraged about medicine and encouraged and just feel so blessed that I am a provider that I’m able to do this, and got me excited about teaching, and teaching other students and getting them involved in rheumatology, you know? And so I try to do that, take students, get them excited about this field that a lot of people just don’t know about.
Dylan McCabe: That’s awesome. And I happen to have a family member actually that has ankylosing spondylitis. And now people know about it, but back 30 years ago, there weren’t too many people. You wouldn’t meet somebody that, you knew, Oh yea I have a family member that has that too. But there at the time, 30 years ago or whatever, there weren’t all these therapies, through infusion or whatever so that’s awesome. That’s an awesome story. From that, like you said, that was kind of a light bulb moment. What’s one thing you would want our listeners to take away from that moment?
Amanda Mixon: I will kind of circle back to, I’m a physician assistant and I’m not a rheumatologist, I certainly don’t claim to be a rheumatologist, but in this field, there is such a need for rheumatology providers and we really can make this huge impact. And we all can from an NP perspective, from a PA perspective, and from an RN perspective, our infusion nurse helps us with the clinical trials as well. And so she’s there, helping and doing joint counts and that’s kind of looking to the future for future therapies that we’re going to have. So there’s just, it’s an exciting time and it’s an exciting time to be in rheumatology. And there’s so much that we can do without being a rheumatologist.
Dylan McCabe: That’s great. Yeah. That’s good to know because you think some people may think, Oh, I can’t, I don’t have much to offer that practice because my focus hasn’t been rheumatology, but you’re saying that shouldn’t be a limiting barrier for you to get into it.
Kevin Lyons: Absolutely not. I mean, in an organization like RNs that have such great education, I mean, I can’t speak [inaudible]. That’s actually how I got involved in RNS is I saw some other publications and I said, hey, you guys have to incorporate PAs or please incorporate us because we need that education. And, through when I take students, I actually show the core curriculum. And I say, here, take this home, look at this. I mean, this is what they learned from, and we can get people that don’t have any rheumatology experience. And then they come into rheumatology and they’re learning, and then they’re able to do the same thing. The same thing that I am doing.
Dylan McCabe: Man. I mean, I’m getting kind of stirred up to study rheumatology. I’m in software sales.
Kevin Lyons: Well, Amanda just came off stage a couple of sessions here in Fort Worth at the conference, but now it’s true. I mean, there’s such a need there, there’s such a need, but also such an opportunity. I mean, we have a series of dinner programs we’re doing next year that are actually engaging with NP and PA students and helping them make a decision as they graduate, to enter into rheumatology as a specialty. And, we’re telling them that the work-life balance and just from a work and play standpoint is amazing to work in rheumatology. You’re not in the ER, 6:00 AM in the morning on a Sunday or whatever. And it’s, and then also if you want to be published and you want to shape the future of rheumatology, if you want to be involved in research if you want to, really help invent how this world of rheumatology works. I mean, rheumatology is fresh, especially now biologic therapies. I think 15, 16, 17 years ago, it was the first one. So it’s, not saying it’s brand new, but at the same time, you can still put your impact. Now you can leave your fingerprints on it to affect the future of patient care. So it’s an exciting specialty for it. And with Amanda’s point, on that, the practice and the light bulb element and things, one of the things that we’re going to be really having a lot discussion around the scope and license and for this, the scope of practice, what can the registered nurse do? I think that there are two things, there’s a myth and then there’s licensure, and sometimes myth can turn into culture of, maybe a practice is concerned about a nurse practitioner or a physician assistant seeing that first time patient, maybe they’re only thrown the co-morbidity management are only thrown, fibromyalgia patients. Because there’s not a trust there there’s not a comfort level there. I think there are a lot of opportunities to have discussions around that to say, what does that look like? And how can we fix that? And how can we prepare the workplace for the workforce? So there’s a workforce shortage and we’re bringing workforce in and the nurse practitioners and PAs are going to be a huge part of the prescriber element of that. And of course, registered nurses are a fundamental necessity in the practice. You have to prepare for the workplace. We have to talk about things like culture and job satisfaction and, really the scope of practice, helping that be understood.
Dylan McCabe: So now you’ve really got my interest peaked. So what do you think is one of the biggest myths that you would want a nurse to know if the nurse is thinking about, or maybe even somebody that’s not yet a nurse, but they’re thinking about the opportunity of rheumatology, what a myth that you would want them to deal with before they head that way?
Kevin Lyons: I think the myths I was kind of referring to is more within what they can do and can’t they do, but to kind of demystify that a little bit not to play off of that is, I mean, registered nurses, they can do joint counts. They can run DAS scores, they can do a lot of things. A lot of those elements, I’m not a clinician, I don’t work in practice. So this is just from my observation and understanding, Amanda, I mean, even with PAs and NPS, I mean, we’ve talked about, and we talked to a lot of rheumatologists and some of them can operate autonomously some of them can’t. Some of them and it’s not that they can’t, it’s just the practices for whatever reason that may be a policy or something they have that they choose for them not to. And so we’re looking at a lot of these models out there, Dr. Calderon, he spoke at our conference this weekend, he and John and Dr. Tesser has a great practice up in our practices out in Arizona. And they have a model where they have one rheumatologist and they have three advanced practice providers, which would mean NPS or PAs working with that one rheumatologist. They have 27 advanced practice providers within their practice. And they’re just, I mean, they’re excelling, they’re taking care of patients. So there’s a lot of conversation around how an advanced practice provider scale a practice. And that’s where I think there are some myths around whether or not I like to segue a little bit. We have conversations that are exhibited this many times with rheumatologists, as well as industry partners. So we recognize the needed industry at the need of our biologic therapies, but even a lot of the sales reps from the industry when we tell them, and they were talking to an MP or PA and we tell them, well, they’re a prescriber. Well, when you may have prescribed or does the rheumatologist need to sign off on your prescription though? No, there, they, based upon the state licensure of where they’re at and what their scope of practice is, can prescribe. We have Iris Zinc the immediate past president of the RNs she actually is a nurse practitioner in Lansing, Michigan. She opened her own practice. So she is primary as her practice. And she has a collaborating physician agreement but she prescribed she diagnosis and so forth. Again, it is not competitive, or it’s not a replacement for rheumatologists whatsoever and none of the RNS board or any of the people who speak with ever say that they are, and blew up a rheumatologist per se. But at the same time, they definitely can scale the practice and ultimately reduce the burden of wait times on patients and have the patients treated much quicker.
Amanda Mixon: Absolutely. It’s a team. We are a team. So I have a wonderful rheumatologist that I work with and he is there for me. And I talked to him about complex patients and we go through things he teaches and, I’ve been doing this for 11 years and I still am learning. And, so, but absolutely we play a huge role particularly moving forward.
Dylan McCabe: Yeah and we hear that a lot too, talking with different practices all around the US and of course we talked to rheumatology practices, gastro practices, neurology practices, but a lot of them from the business model side, which is what I tend to focus more on with my role at WeInfuse is a lot of these practices are structured that way, where you have a physician that kind of plays a role of medical director for the most part and then you have a nurse practitioner and PAs and nurses really doing a lot of the interaction with the patients. And we see that a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot. So like you said, though, not at all to replace providers or anything, but it’s just, there is a growing kind of trend in that direction as far as scaling a business model, what would you say? And I know this is a tough question to answer because there are so many things going on. Like we alluded to before, what would you say are you guys most excited about right now in rheumatology?
Amanda Mixon: Well, I have, there are so many things I’m so excited about. I mean, I really am excited to see more PAs and nurse practitioners and nurses go into rheumatology because I think even 10 years ago, it was funny when I first got into rheumatology, I rarely met anybody else that was in rheumatology. And now it’s becoming more and more because people are getting excited about that. So that the future looks very bright for rheumatology nurse practitioners, PAs, and nurses it really does and people just have to open their eyes to it.
Dylan McCabe: Well, that’s good, that’s a good answer. What about you?
Kevin Lyons: I would ditto that. I would also say I’m very excited about the educational strategy that the RNS is pushing forward next year, as we realized that as these, it’s our responsibility to make sure that when a nurse, when a PA, when a nurse practitioner wants to come into rheumatology, that we have the tools and the resources needed for them to be able to be successful in their career in rheumatology, and for them to stay in rheumatology for them to also tell their colleagues about rheumatology and create a groundswell of activity into rheumatology. And so I’m excited about the educational strategy that the RNS, our board of directors and our committees, I mean, they’re just, they’re phenomenal as far as their approach to education design, their approach to educational delivery. Their willingness to, sit with me and days and days of meetings talking to partners to make it happen from a business model side. And so we have, we have an exciting 2019 ahead of us. And hopefully, we’ll be able to share some more of that with your viewers or listeners in the future. But again, if you go to the RNSnurse.org you find a lot of information there. We’re also very active on Facebook. We have probably one of the larger rheumatology presences there. As well as Instagram, Instagram has done fantastic for us as far as getting news and bits and pieces of information out. And even, if you’re listening to this, we also have all of our conference videos. We have a ton of educational content on our website that’s available, even if you’re not a member because we believe in putting our best stuff out there. And then if you’d like our best stuff, you’re going to come be part of the tribe and help us create better stuff. And so come and visit the website, enjoy the material on there, check out a local chapter, look for a dinner program in your area, join us in DC in November for our two-day event, that we have there on education, and get involved.
Dylan McCabe: That’s so good. Yea you guys are really equipping people and propelling them forward. So this is going to be one last question. That again is going to be hard to answer. What is one final parting piece of advice for our listeners?
Amanda Mixon: Well, I assume that a lot of these listeners are already in rheumatology, but stay in rheumatology. The future is bright. That’s what I would say.
Kevin Lyons: And I would just say, participate.
Amanda Mixon: yea that’s really good too.
Kevin Lyons: Be a voice for your patients, be a voice for your profession, be a voice for your specialty.
Dylan McCabe: I love that. Yeah. Be proactive, not reactive, get involved. I love that. That’s great. Well, guys, thank you so much for being on the show because there’s a lot of our listeners that maybe, may not be involved in rheumatology, and you’ve just totally lit a flame to inspire them to think more about that. And a lot of our listeners don’t realize resources that are available like RNS and now they do. Now they know they can tap into all those resources. So it’s just great to share these resources with our listeners. And we really appreciate you guys being on the show. All right that concludes our interview. And if you listen to some of the things they said, it’s just critical to make sure you have some of those business practices in place. And that’s really what WeInfuse is designed to do to enable you to focus on the clinical side, knowing that the scary, stressful side of the infusion practice, the benefits investigation process, the scheduling, making sure you have your I’s dotted and T’s crossed. That’s what that software does is it puts that platform in place. And so if you haven’t done so yet, be sure to check out weinfuse.com and schedule a demo to learn more about how WeInfuse can simplify the entire infusion practice. And we are much more than a software company. We really aim to provide tips, tools, and tactics that can help you simplify the whole process overall. This is Dylan McCabe with WeInfuse podcast. Thank you for listening and joining the program and we will catch you in the next episode.